Playoffs: 7th seed update

[Wascawy Wabbits]

Has it ever been thrown around to have the 7th seed in the playoffs awarded to the team with the most points outside of the top 6?

Scheduling and head to head matchups is one thing to determine the playoff seeds, but should a team that has fielded a competitive starting lineup all year long and just didn't have luck on their side in their weekly matchups not get that chance to compete for some $$?

I'm obviously a little choked that my team doesn't really have a chance at making the playoffs this year even though I've been the highest scoring team all season long... But I think it'd be a decent reward to teams in the future that there's still hope to make the playoffs even if you didn't have the best W/L record.

I know the rules are setup to try and mimic the NFL, but just thought I'd throw this out there with playoffs coming up and it's on everyone's minds right now.

Good luck to everyone for the remainder of the season and playoffs! I'm glad I traded my (now) top 9 pick to Scott so I could compete for the 1.17! Haha

[Wascawy Wabbits]

Or use Victory Points over Total Points?

Food for thought...

[bonscott]

I don't mind it either way. But there is a wrinkle in this league where seeds 8 and 9 have a "play in" game and the winner goes into the lower playoff bracket for money so not sure how that would play into it.

[Wascawy Wabbits]

I don't mind it either way. But there is a wrinkle in this league where seeds 8 and 9 have a "play in" game and the winner goes into the lower playoff bracket for money so not sure how that would play into it.

Gonna give this a bump

Not sure the 8th and 9th seed lower bracket would have a big difference?

Top 6 make the playoffs
Top team not in the top 6 with either the highest total points or best power ranking gets the 7th seed wild card spot.
The next 2 teams in the standings go in that lower playoff bracket

[Poker in the Rear]

I personally like how it is now

[braven112]

My preference would be to keep it like it is.

[Wascawy Wabbits]

My final bump for this to try and remove just a little bit of the randomness of the weekly W/L record to determine the playoff seeding. Every season a team w/ lucky matchups ends up in the playoffs while a stronger team gets eliminated due to crappy luck facing the few teams that score higher them.

This years suggestion is using All-Play win % to determine the 7th seed. This would be a strong gauge for how an owner's team performed on a weekly basis against the rest of the league to get that final playoff spot. Having a high score and taking a loss is pretty rough when you see teams scoring significantly lower getting a W. You probably would have gone 12-3 (or worse, 28-2 if it's a doubleheader) that week w/ your high score against the rest of the league which makes getting a L that much harder to swallow, especially when W's are the primary factor to get you into the playoffs.

In terms of historical data how this would have impacted the playoff seeds (this year has both Vit and BTP because I had been putting this post together prior to the week 12 matchups where Vit went 1-3, dropping him to 7th in W/L):
2015 - 6/7th Seed: BTP/Vit All play - Wabbits (BTP 7th, Vit 6th, Wabbits 5th. Week 13 isn't updated until after MNF, but I'm expecting to finish above both when its updated). Weekly H2H: Wabbits 9-4 over BTP; Wabbits 8-5 over Vit; H2H2H: Wabbits 6, Vit 4, BTP 3
2014 - 7th Seed: LVE All Play - Vitside Mafia (10th vs 4th). Weekly H2H: Vit 10-3 over LVE
2013 - 7th Seed: Poker All Play - Wabbits (12th vs 3rd). Weekly H2H: Wabbits 8-5 over Poker
2012 - 7th Seed: Sabertooths All Play - FRA (5th vs 3rd). Weekly H2H: Saber 7-6 over FRA
2011 - 7th Seed: BTP All Play - Pigskins (8th vs 4th). Weekly H2H: Pigskins 8-5 over BTP
2010 - 7th Seed: FRA All Play - Rolling Rockers (9th vs 6th). Weekly H2H: Rockers 8-5 over FRA
2009 - 7th Seed: LBer All Play - FRA (7th vs 4th). Weekly H2H: FRA 8-5 over LB
2008 - 7th Seed: Devil Dogs All Play - Amish (10th vs 7th). Weekly H2H: Amish 8-5 over DD

Some pretty decent discrepancies between who got into the playoffs and how they stacked up in all play win % as well as when you compare the teams on a week to week basis against each other. The "stronger" team lost their chance at the playoffs because of their weekly record despite the having a better All Play and H2H record against the team(s) that made it into the playoffs.

Suggested Playoff Seeding
1-4 as is w/ division winners
5-6 Wildcard as is w/ W/L records
7 Wildcard updated to be based on All Play %
8-16 as is w/ W/L records

This suggestion has gained little traction the previous years since creating the thread a few years back... If this again gets nowhere, I can at least say I tried and think I made a solid argument for this change.

[Achon44]

Is that how they do it in the CFL?

[Wascawy Wabbits]

Is that how they do it in the CFL?

Another thought provoking and well articulated contribution...

There is a multi-page discussion on FBG right now about H2H vs Total Points as a tiebreaker. There are numerous posts by members that discuss ways of benefiting teams that had unlucky matchups but performed incredibly well the entire season and giving them the final seed in the playoffs. I don't think it's an outlandish idea.

I don't really understand how a 70pt win holds more weight then a 150pt loss.

[Achon44]

http://youtu.be/b5-iJUuPWis

[Wascawy Wabbits]

http://youtu.be/b5-iJUuPWis

Wish I was lucky enough to have won back to back games scoring 73 and 75 points, the 3rd and 4th lowest scores those 2 weeks...

My team won in every statistical category there is against the 6th and 7th seeds in the playoff outside of W/L...

I hit a buzzsaw week 12 facing the the top 2 scores of the week, but outscored 75% of the league.

Two years ago, I had the highest scoring team in the league and missed the playoffs because of W/L but had the 3rd best All-Play win % at the time the playoffs started.

Playing to win the game is setting your best lineup week in and week out. We have no impact on what the other team will score against us.

[Achon44]

One last thing from me.

Can you honestly say that if you had made the playoffs you would have still created this thread?

[Wascawy Wabbits]

One last thing from me.

Can you honestly say that if you had made the playoffs you would have still created this thread?

Hard to answer since I can't go back in time when I originally created this thread and couldn't believe that I had missed the playoffs after leading the league in scoring the entire season. The thread was created then and it has been something I have bumped the past two seasons since posting.

Last season, I did not make the playoffs (nor did I have a chance at making them as shown above, Vit would have got a spot above me). I bumped this thread then (Jan 14, 2014 1:36 pm) with another suggestion, but not nearly as detailed as the most recent.

I had this most recent update in draft stages prior to week 11 when things were still in flux (going back and looking at the historical data took a bit of time, and finding that time isn't always the easiest to do). I thought if I was going to bump this again to make sure it was as detailed as I could make it w/ the data to go along with it.

So yes, if I had made the playoffs I believe I still would have posted this most recent update. The difference this season in comparison to years past is much closer seeing as how you, Vit, and myself finished 5th-7th in All-Play % and overall standings. There wasn't a "Cinderella" team making the playoffs this year.

It may seem like I have an agenda since I am the one that has been affected 2 of the last 3 seasons, but it's really not. I try and make suggestions that I think would benefit everyone.

Outside of your recent sarcastic responses there has been little in terms of contributions from anyone since bringing up this idea. As mentioned in my most recent bump, I don't intend to bump this thread again next season. If it can't gain any steam after 3 attempts, it's probably not gonna happen.

Question: What is the downfall of awarding ONE playoff spot based on something other than current format of focusing primarily on W/L record? I understand that W/L is how it's always been and what we're all most familiar with in The League, but it doesn't mean that it always was and is the best solution

[Wascawy Wabbits]

One last thing from me.

Can you honestly say that if you had made the playoffs you would have still created this thread?

Last season, I did not make the playoffs (nor did I have a chance at making them as shown above, Vit would have got a spot above me). I bumped this thread then (Jan 14, 2014 1:36 pm) with another suggestion, but not nearly as detailed as the most recent.

Looks like I gave this a bump the same playoff season I created it, not last season (trying to put responses together while still working may not always be the best idea)... Well I wish I had for Vit's sake! He got screwed last year, just like myself the year before.

[Wascawy Wabbits]

One last thing from me.

Can you honestly say that if you had made the playoffs you would have still created this thread?

Last season, I did not make the playoffs (nor did I have a chance at making them as shown above, Vit would have got a spot above me). I bumped this thread then (Jan 14, 2014 1:36 pm) with another suggestion, but not nearly as detailed as the most recent.

Looks like I gave this a bump the same playoff season I created it, not last season (trying to put responses together while still working may not always be the best idea)... Well I wish I had for Vit's sake! He got screwed last year, just like myself the year before.

One last thing, I don't think I got "screwed" out of the playoffs this year. The teams that got in, East excluded , are all solid and put up big points this year. Like I said, there's no Cinderella team this year based on All Play %. This appears to have been the closest running for those playoff seeds according to the historical data.

Anyways... Hopefully others comment and maybe something comes of this.

[bonesman]

http://youtu.be/b5-iJUuPWis

so true

[bonesman]

One last thing from me.

Can you honestly say that if you had made the playoffs you would have still created this thread?

Super valid question, glad it was addressed.

Along the same lines, is it any less of a valid proposal even if the proposer would have benefited from it the most retrospectively? Does nothing to help him going forward if we adopt this.


I'd like to see it go to a vote. It's a thing that a lot of leagues seem to do. And this most def does not benefit me IMO. It would have only hurt me in past years... and since I'll probably win my division every year going forward, it'd only hurt my playoff chances with the best possible 7th seed in there. But I have to admit, it seems the most "fair".

[Vitside Mafia]

Just my 2 cents... even though I do think Wabbit's proposal make the it more fair for people who scores points. I think that it's a departure from what I like best about this particular league. The way it emulates the NFL.

I wish sometimes that I was in the Eastern division, just like I wished that my Seahawks was in the NFC East this year. But a couple years back I remember that division was one of the hardest. Hell DD ran the table twice (yeah still jealous about that bro )

I'm sure that that division will comeback to be a tougher division with their high draft picks. Just like in the NFL.

I don't think that you should carry your points over in the season to determine playoffs it would be like NFL teams carrying their points over game after game.

My best advice to everyone is something that some blowhard told me (*cough* Brandon *cough*)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RAlrzcdfRY

PS I would like wish everyone good luck in the play-offs....but I won't...CUZ I WANNA WIN THIS BITCH!

[Wascawy Wabbits]

I don't think that you should carry your points over in the season to determine playoffs it would be like NFL teams carrying their points over game after game.

In the most recently proposed idea for the 7th seed, you don't carry your points thru the season. You're crazy 214pt outburst only counts for that one week (15-0, not sure if a double header would mean it's 30-0?). MWC's 39pt game only counts for that one week (0-15 in all play).

You match up your weekly score against the entire league. It's still kind of H2H, except it's H2H2H2H2H2H2H2H2H2H2H2H2H2H2H2H every week to determine that ONE playoff spot. This isn't best ball, you're still setting a lineup, if you make a poor decision it'll come back to bite you as it does in our weekly H2H matchup. The person w/ the highest All Play win % outside of the top 6 may not end up being the highest scorer

Example of a scenario: Team A is down 3 games to Team B for that final playoff spot in All Play record. Team A and Team B have been scoring close in points all season, but Team B has had much better luck in their weekly matchups while Team A has been unfortunate to always matchup against a top scorer.. Team A's weekly record is 6-10, Team B's weekly record is 11-5. Week 13 hits and Team A has the high score of the week while Team B finishes 4th or lower. Team A ends up w/ the final playoff spot because when you take the entire season into account, they had an overall better record.

The way it works right now is (historically) Team A has an all play record that is SIGNIFICANTLY better than Team B, yet Team B gets in the playoffs because they were fortunate enough to be matched up against teams on their worst weeks. When you compare apples to apples, Team A overall performed better than Team B, yet Team A doesn't get to move on due to unfortunate luck. Should the team that finished with a 70% win percentage against the entire league get into the playoffs or the one 43%? That was you (Vit) vs LVE last season.

As for

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RAlrzcdfRY

No matter the lineup we set, we can't make our opponent score less or make adjustments during the matchup if a player is underperforming like real NFL teams can....

Happy to see LB is on board to see this come to a vote. Would be great to see more post their comments.

[Wascawy Wabbits]

Another bonus to the proposed idea is that Ws vs teams that began playing for draft position part way into the season hold less weight for that 7th seed.

That W still holds a ton of weight in a teams quest for a top 6 seed, but doesn't have the same impact on that 7th seed.

[bonscott]

I certainly don't mind it coming up for a vote.

Me personally I don't really care either way, we all play under the same rules no matter what it is.

Of all the leagues I'm in there is only one that has the last playoff spot go to the team with the highest points that's not already in. I've proposed it for my own local league I commish and after doing that twice it's been shot down with very little support.

If you want an alternative for this league then I'd think you'd go with power rank vs. total points for that last playoff spot since this league uses power rank for wildcard tiebreakers and for draft order. Would seem to me to stay consistent with that.

But even power rank can be glitched as I pointed out in chat last week. If I had come down to a tiebreak based on power rank I would lose that because my bench has been very thin, instead my strat was to get as many studs as possible, damn with the depth. Well, as I see now that really hurts your power ranking so by doing this I actually hurt myself in terms of tiebreakers had it come down to that. But in the end no system isn't without flaws.

At any rate, call for a vote and we'll see where it leads.

[bonesman]

I think the no-brainer way to go would be all play record, no?

[Wascawy Wabbits]

I think the no-brainer way to go would be all play record, no?

I think All Play removes any quirks out of the equation, ie bench scoring factoring in with power rank. Your bench has nothing to do w/ how your team performed on any given week to accumulate your overall record.

Tie breakers proceeding All Play is another story.

[braven112]

I think all-play record is a very fair metric. Its probably the best metric to use to compare the relative strength of each team.

I think standard win/loss is more fun though. The highs and lows of the weekly schedule separate fantasy football from other fantasy sports.

I played in a league that went out of their way to try to take all the luck out of fantasy football. For me it only took out all the fun. I even made the playoffs in that league because of this type of rule. I was so far a head in total points the last couple weeks didn't matter despite my poor record, I was virtually locked into that final wild card spot.

The next season they moved to a single division because that was more "fair". Then they removed kickers because they were so unpredictable it just wasn't "fair".

As you've pointed out I also missed the playoffs because of this. Tough luck for me.

Obviously we want to run a fair league but I'm playing fantasy football because its fun not because its fair.

In our league I also wouldn't like how the #2 seed would likely face a tougher opponent than the #3 seed. I don't think that is fair either.

[Achon44]

I played in a league that went out of their way to try to take all the luck out of fantasy football. For me it only took out all the fun. I even made the playoffs in that league because of this type of rule. I was so far a head in total points the last couple weeks didn't matter despite my poor record, I was virtually locked into that final wild card spot.

This is a great point. Don't forget that if I would have lost a game that one week I got "lucky" I believe we would have had a four team tie for the last playoff spot late in the season and I was still only one game up on three teams after that week, so it was pretty exciting heading in to the stretch. That all could have been lost with a different system.