? about seedings

[acerfc]

I thought that ties were broken by H2H match ups.

I beat Bring the Pain this season but am still the 2 seed.

Just curious

[bonscott]

The playoff app seems to be correct in listing you as the #1 seed. I think the commish just "fat fingered" the seedings. Everything else appears correct to me.

[braven112]

I don't have the tiebreakers labeled as well as I should in the constitution but the way it was done was using the wild card (inter-division) tiebreakers.

Ties are always broken inside the division first...

So Witch City and Acer are tied for the division and Acer wins due to H2H.

Then Bring the Pain and Acer are still tied so we move onto the tiebreakers for inter-division ties. And for that there is no H2H tiebreaker. The rules were copied directly from another league I commish so the first tiebreaker is conference record and in our case we don't have conferences so the next tiebreaker is power rank. That is what breaks the tie in this case.

Standings Tiebreakers
Division 2 Team Tiebreakers
1. Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games between the clubs).
2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the division.
3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
4. Power Rank.
5. Total points scored
6. All Play Record
7. Victory Points
8. Most Points Allowed
9. Coin Flip

Division 3 Team Tiebreakers
(Note: If two clubs remain tied after third or other clubs are eliminated during any step, tie breaker reverts to step 1 of the two-club format).
1. Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games between the clubs).
2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the division.
3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
4. Power Rank.
5. Total points scored
6. All Play Record
7. Victory Points
8. Most Points Allowed
9. Coin Flip

Ties are always broke inside a division first.

Wild Card 2 Team Tiebreakers
1. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
2. Power Rank.
3. Total points scored
4. All Play Record
5. Victory Points
6. Most Points Allowed
7. Coin Flip

Wild Card 3 Team Tiebreakers
(Note: If two clubs remain tied after third or other clubs are eliminated during any step, tie breaker reverts to step 1 of the two-club format).
1. Head-to-head (best won-lost-tied percentage in games between the clubs).
2. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the division.
3. Best won-lost-tied percentage in games played within the conference.
4. Power Rank.
5. Total points scored
6. All Play Record
7. Victory Points
8. Most Points Allowed
9. Coin Flip

Now the consolation is that the 2nd seed avoids a potential semi final match with the #5 see which in this case is the 3rd best team in the league but for now that is how we have it set up.

[bonscott]

Might want to update the "what if the playoffs started today" app to reflect power rank as the #1 tiebreaker for outside the division so it will reflect properly then the rankings.

[braven112]

Might want to update the "what if the playoffs started today" app to reflect power rank as the #1 tiebreaker for outside the division so it will reflect properly then the rankings.

I just threw it up there as a way to see who was making the playoffs more than for actual seeding. I'll try to take a look at the generator it has a trillion options I'm sure it does that somewhere I'm just not sure where. If you can see where it does that I'd be more than happy to update the code for that.

Also I added some clarification to the constitution and removed the conference references since that doesn't apply to our league.

[bonscott]

Might want to update the "what if the playoffs started today" app to reflect power rank as the #1 tiebreaker for outside the division so it will reflect properly then the rankings.

I just threw it up there as a way to see who was making the playoffs more than for actual seeding. I'll try to take a look at the generator it has a trillion options I'm sure it does that somewhere I'm just not sure where. If you can see where it does that I'd be more than happy to update the code for that.

Also I added some clarification to the constitution and removed the conference references since that doesn't apply to our league.

Send me the code in email and I'll take a look at it. I'll figure out which number is power rank and send you the update.

[braven112]

Might want to update the "what if the playoffs started today" app to reflect power rank as the #1 tiebreaker for outside the division so it will reflect properly then the rankings.

I just threw it up there as a way to see who was making the playoffs more than for actual seeding. I'll try to take a look at the generator it has a trillion options I'm sure it does that somewhere I'm just not sure where. If you can see where it does that I'd be more than happy to update the code for that.

Also I added some clarification to the constitution and removed the conference references since that doesn't apply to our league.

Send me the code in email and I'll take a look at it. I'll figure out which number is power rank and send you the update.

Here is the generator:

http://www.habman.com/mfl/ticker/playoffgenerator.html

[bonscott]

Yep. I was looking for the code you are using specifically and then I can modify it for you. Too many variables I don't know to fill in on the generator, easier to start with what ya got already.

I'll give it a try, but save the code you have now just in case.

[bonscott]

Ok, try this code. Save your old code just in case and we'll modify it.

By the way, from what I can see you'll need to modify the toilet bowl brackets as teams aren't ordered by power rank.
Like from what I can tell the play-in game should actually be Degenerates and Danger Zone and the Pigskins are out because all 3 are tied and the Pigskins have the lowest power rank. Unless I'm missing something obviously.

Code: Select all

<script language="JavaScript" type="text/javascript" src="http://www.habman.com/mfl/apps/js/habman_apps_ver3.js"></script>
<script language="JavaScript" type="text/javascript">
<!--

var divisionTieBreaker = [1,8,2,6,4,7,9,0];
var wildCardTieBreaker = [1,6,4,7,9,0];
var displayColumns = [6,16];

var useStartOverRule = true;
var useDivisionBestRule = true;

var numWildCardTeams = 3;

var hidePlayoff = true;

document.write("<div id='playoffTable'></div>");

synchronousXMLRequest(leagueFile, 'getLeagueData', 'league');
synchronousXMLRequest(standingsFile,'doStandingsArray','standings');

doHeadToHeadArray();
doPlayoffTable('playoffTable');

//-->
</script>

[braven112]

Ok, try this code. Save your old code just in case and we'll modify it.

By the way, from what I can see you'll need to modify the toilet bowl brackets as teams aren't ordered by power rank.
Like from what I can tell the play-in game should actually be Degenerates and Danger Zone and the Pigskins are out because all 3 are tied and the Pigskins have the lowest power rank. Unless I'm missing something obviously.

Code: Select all

<script language="JavaScript" type="text/javascript" src="http://www.habman.com/mfl/apps/js/habman_apps_ver3.js"></script>
<script language="JavaScript" type="text/javascript">
<!--

var divisionTieBreaker = [1,8,2,6,4,7,9,0];
var wildCardTieBreaker = [1,6,4,7,9,0];
var displayColumns = [6,16];

var useStartOverRule = true;
var useDivisionBestRule = true;

var numWildCardTeams = 3;

var hidePlayoff = true;

document.write("<div id='playoffTable'></div>");

synchronousXMLRequest(leagueFile, 'getLeagueData', 'league');
synchronousXMLRequest(standingsFile,'doStandingsArray','standings');

doHeadToHeadArray();
doPlayoffTable('playoffTable');

//-->
</script>

I'll double check those match ups but currently when 3 or more teams are tied, the first tiebreaker is H2H record in games played against each other. Power rank is the second tiebreaker, in that scenario.

[bonscott]

I'll double check those match ups but currently when 3 or more teams are tied, the first tiebreaker is H2H record in games played against each other. Power rank is the second tiebreaker, in that scenario.

Ahhh, if that's the case then the app won't properly show a tiebreak between 3 teams. Doesn't make sense to me that it would be different if 3 teams are tied vs. just 2. Perhaps something we can change in the offseason. Either both should be H2H or both should be Power Rank. That's what makes sense to me.

So it looks like you'll then have to figure out H2H in terms of the 3 teams tied for the 2 play-in game spots, perhaps that won't change. But many of the other matchups do change as at most there are 2 teams tied there.

Oh, looks like the division icons aren't showing up. Add the following right after the tiebreaker variables.

useDivisionIcon = true;

[braven112]

Yeah there really isn't a perfect way to set the habman module up, I added a disclaimer to the code, the main thing it does is is give us a good idea of who's in and who's out but its not perfect.

The way the 3 team tie is broken is as follows.

Rule #1 is ties are always broken inside the division first so in this case we have Degenerates, Dangerzone and Pigskins. Since Degenerates and Dangerzone are in the same division we'll use the 2 team division tiebreakers for these two teams first. In this case the H2H record for these is 2-0 in favor of the Degenerates. The second tiebreaker would have been power rank also won by Degenerates but we didn't need to go that far,

Now that we have 2 teams we go down the list and power rank is the tiebreaker Degenerates has the better Power Ranks so he wins and that leaves us the following

#8 seed Degenerates
#9 seed Pacific Pigskins
#10 seed is Dangerzone

11 and 12 are tied and power ranks is the tiebreaker here.

#11 seed is Amish Rakefighters 7-11-0 33.29
#12 seed is LB DeCleaters 7-11-0 26.69

#13 seed is The Executioners

14 and 15 are tied and power ranks is the tiebreaker here.

#14 seed Las Vegas Elite 5-13-0 23.49
#15 seed Silver Bullets 5-13-0 22.93

#16 seed Rolling Rockers

I've adjusted the playoff match ups accordingly, as always let me know if you notice any mistakes.

[bonscott]

Yeah there really isn't a perfect way to set the habman module up, I added a disclaimer to the code, the main thing it does is is give us a good idea of who's in and who's out but its not perfect.

The way the 3 team tie is broken is as follows.

Rule #1 is ties are always broken inside the division first so in this case we have Degenerates, Dangerzone and Pigskins. Since Degenerates and Dangerzone are in the same division we'll use the 2 team division tiebreakers for these two teams first. In this case the H2H record for these is 2-0 in favor of the Degenerates. The second tiebreaker would have been power rank also won by Degenerates but we didn't need to go that far,

Now that we have 2 teams we go down the list and power rank is the tiebreaker Degenerates has the better Power Ranks so he wins and that leaves us the following

#8 seed Degenerates
#9 seed Pacific Pigskins
#10 seed is Dangerzone

Hmmmm.

So the Degenerates gets the #8 seed.

But then you start over and compare Pigskins and Dangerzone which would be by Power Rank since it's only 2 teams. Dangerzone has a higher power rank thus Dangerzone should get the #9 seed and the Pigskins the #10.

So it would be pretty much like what the app shows:
8) Degenerates
9) Dangerzone
10) Pigskins

Or am I missing something?

Sorry, doing these projections is a "hobby" of mine in both my leagues.

[braven112]

I'm trying to follow the same format as the NFL in terms of how the ties are broken and the way I interpreted it is that once a team is eliminated they are no longer considered tied. Since we use the division best rule like the NFL once that is applied it eliminates a team and they are seeded lowest?

Let me see if I can dig up the NFL rule book...

[braven112]

http://www.nfl.com/standings/tiebreakingprocedures

The last part...

When the first Wild-Card team has been identified, the procedure is repeated to name the second Wild-Card, i.e., eliminate all but the highest-ranked club in each division prior to proceeding to step 2. In situations where three or more teams from the same division are involved in the procedure, the original seeding of the teams remains the same for subsequent applications of the tie breaker if the top-ranked team in that division qualifies for a Wild-Card berth.

I guess you are right since we would start over once we determine the #8 seed. I'll have to add that last paragraph to our constitution. Good god this can get pretty convoluted.

Pass me a damn beer!!

[bonscott]

http://www.nfl.com/standings/tiebreakingprocedures

The last part...

When the first Wild-Card team has been identified, the procedure is repeated to name the second Wild-Card, i.e., eliminate all but the highest-ranked club in each division prior to proceeding to step 2. In situations where three or more teams from the same division are involved in the procedure, the original seeding of the teams remains the same for subsequent applications of the tie breaker if the top-ranked team in that division qualifies for a Wild-Card berth.

I guess you are right since we would start over once we determine the #8 seed. I'll have to add that last paragraph to our constitution. Good god this can get pretty convoluted.

Pass me a damn beer!!

Here ya go!

Yea, typically once 1 of the 3 tied break the tiebreaker and move on (are seeded) then you start over with the 2 that are left and go from there. MFL doesn't do this, they just rank the 3 teams. Habman's app however does support this, both "division best" and "start over" rules that the NFL has. I believe the code I gave you has these both set to yes. The one thing his code doesn't support is different tiebreakers if there are 3 or more teams tied which I think I'll bring up for an offseason change. I don't care if H2H or Powerrank is the first tiebreak for wildcards, but it should be the same no matter how many teams are tied.